The scriptures support the notion of Catholic authority—that the Seat of Moses, passed down in succession for years until the time of Christ and the High Priesthood of Caiaphas—was transferred to the Church where it became the Seat of Peter. Sounds very mediterian gods like. Romen catholic just adopted rituals people used in that area. Even christians use rituals from Egyptian religious dogma.
The judeo Christian Muslim religions are just recreations. Its silly people are too stupid to see this. The ones put in authority, by One Who had it already were the ones who adopted them. But some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, spoke to the Greeks and preached the Lord Jesus when they arrived in Antioch. The hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number believed and turned to the Lord.
Acts —21 , but they still had some pagan practices. I perceive that you are very religious in all things. So he was praising them for their rituals. The Saints know much better than we do? We ARE the Saints! I would say God knows much better. Can you please inform me of biblical reference that states that the deceased in heaven know God better than followers of Christ can know God here on earth? Following your logic of those in heaven saints, Mary, etc knowing the boss ie God better than we do because they are closer to him, how do you reconcile that with the Trinity?
If God is only in heaven, where is his Holy Spirit? If so, then your logic about speaking to deceased saints because they are closer to God contradicts the Trinity. I would be interested to hear your response. We can ask God for help, He can lead us with His spirit. Satan seeks to divide us.
All the different variations of Christianity such as Baptist, Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, Lutheran etc all seem to have different theologies which confuses people. Imagine what a non believer thinks of us when none of us Christians can agree on anything. The Bible is very clear though. I love my Catholic Brothers and Sisters but this is something that has their eyes blinded and taking the focus off of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One! Mary nor the saints, nor any Angels are Gods and are not to be prayed to. Why would this surprise us?
There are so many things wrong with this Sola Scriptura but…. It is self-refuting. When Paul writes to the Corinthians, Galations etc it is because there were already Churches there. The Bible does not tell you even which books should be in it. How many books are in your bible?
On what authority? If you die tonight…. Why would you stop your intercessions. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten. It is not for anti-Christian proof-texting. And the author implies a corrective to this sour lament at the very end. He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. He has a detailed answer for you…. Men drunk on power and money have deceived countless millions for centuries, and even committed murder.
All else is falsehood constructed for the earthly gain of men! Unfortunately for countless people, you are correct! There are so many caught up in Catholicism man made religion that decided how to worship and honor God their way Even baptizing a child, as good as the intention may be, was never mentioned in the Bible. I prefer a baby dedication and leading them to Christ through example.
Actually infant baptism was mentioned: In 1Co ,2: …our forefathers were all under the cloud, and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. All the Israelites, not just those over a certain age. How old are they? Then Paul and Silas spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house. At that hour of the night, the jailer took them and washed their wounds.
And without delay, he and all his household were baptized. They had already witnessed the faith of the head of the household, so he was able to vouch for all. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand ; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. So since anyone can fall away, should no one be baptized? Loved praying, loved Jesus.
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Still at 3 is the same. And we are still leading her by example, taking her to church, reading holy books, praying…. Most of the Roman Catholics I have met over the years who have decided to remain in the Roman Catholic Church are often evangelists who are trying to tell the other Roman Catholics that they must experience godly repentance that John the Baptist spoke of.
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There is worldly repentance that sadly people do in which they do not do a turn in their behavior, but they continue and think the same evil deeds and thoughts as they always ever had. Do not throw out all the babies with the bathwater! Not all those who go to a Protestant church building are saved either sad to say! I held my tongue for a time and went to the Kingdom Hall a few times. I heard them out. Thank you for pointing all this out, GodGutsGlory.
I agree, the divided church is a big problem and NOT what God intended for his children. Often paradoxical. So the early centuries of Catholic Christianity faced a veritable barrage of such heresies. Of course Catholics go directly to Jesus. If they do, they are acting in the same way we ask our mother Mary to act.
If you die tonight….. Can they ask you? I was wondering why Catholics who follow Christ did so. I know we do not add or take Word from the Bible. As I understand prayer is opening a dialogue, request or worshiping, so why make requests to a spirit that is no longer on this earth? I really am asking out of pure curiosity because my opinion of Catholicism contradicts the same Gospel we all follow??? Emily Cavins, this article is well written and makes some assumptions in the beginning that I think if considered incorrect, may change the aspect of this piece by shifting the perspective of the reader.
Your explanation, if one assumes the postulated assumptions are correct, would settle the matter. The main problem I have is, where is it written that the dead are in heaven before the living? To me it says that God decided to create the universe and all that is in it. But it also says in those few words what the first thing in our existence, He created. This tells me a few things, one is that God is timeless because he created it, therefore He must exist outside of it, sure he can enter it and influence it, but He existed outside of it.
Next, if we imagine time as a train track stretching across a table, and that represents time, with its boundaries being the edge of the table. Would someone who died 1, years ago, or more towards the left side of the table, reach God before someone who is still living and has yet to die? What would this assumption do to your theory about praying TO Mary and the Saints? How else could Jesus die on the cross for ALL mankind?
It becomes a bit simpler to understand when you realize God invented time. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that we should pray to Mary or any other saints. You will not find it in the Bible because it is a man made thought. It breaks my heart how deceived people are when they can pray to Jesus himself.
It is idolatry because you are putting Mary in a role that only Jesus can do, be our mediator. This idea Sola Scriptura was unknown for years of Catholic Christianity until Luther plucked it from thin air in the 16th Century! Are you saying a man made tradition is okay for prayer if it goes against what the Bible teaches? Hi Mary What I am saying is you misunderstand the foundation, Your paradigm is wrong. Kingdoms have rulers; they are not individualistic American Democracies.
It is the family-library of The Catholic Church. On whose authority did he do this? How many books in your Bible? And why? The Bible as a Library composed by The Catholic Church never mentions itself, nor does it say which books should be in it. But it testifies to The Apostolic Tradition many times.
Is this what Catholics believe? Actually, you are to believe that saints are with us and able to see and hear us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. Who are the witnesses? The saints in heaven. They surround us, even when we are alone. They can see us. They can hear us. They can, and do, pray for us just as we pray for each other on Earth. They are souls made perfect Heb — and the perfected souls are closest to Jesus and, therefor, their prayers are more efficacious than those of imperfect people on Earth.
How can I have a deeper relationship with Jesus?
Catholics are asking the Saints and Mary to pray for us Ephesians , James There is no prayer as powerful as one from Heaven. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the saints are dead. They are more alive than we are. It also says that we are to pray for each other. And nobody on Earth is anywhere near as close to God as Mary and the saints in Heaven.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this discussion. Praying to someone who has died is giving them God like status. You are making them out to be a God. A false God. Second, we can all agree that heaven is a wonderful place where there is no suffering or pain or agony. If we start saying that people in heaven can hear all our thoughts and voices, then we are giving them misery and pain and agony with all our pain and misery and agony when we pray. Think about it.
Our child just was diagnosed with cancer and is going to die and we are in pain asking for help from people in heaven bringing them pain thinking about our situation. Our child was raped and tortured and we are praying to people in heaven to help us. Our Child is in jail and is looking at life in prison. Imagine millions and billions of such horrific events and prayers that are sent out to people in heaven to listen to and deal with all day everyday for eternity.
They would be suffering just as much as we are suffering. That would put them in a living hell not heaven. God and God alone can hear our thoughts and voices and our suffering and pain and agony and deal with it. Since Jesus Christ died for us and our sins, we can now have our own personal relationship with God and come directly to God for all of our prayers and needs.
God will not turn away a single prayer. He may not answer our prayers the way we want it or when we want it. He answers prayers on his timing because God knows what is best for us but he hears all of our prayers. We can ask others to join us in prayer and to pray for us. Living people who can hear us.
The more people we can join in prayer, the more we bring others closer to God through our prayers. When we pray with others, we fellowship and we grow spiritually.
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Iron sharpens iron. The people of faith helps others grow in faith together. The people in heaven do not need to grow closer to God. They are with God already. They spend their time worshiping and praising God in heaven. They do not worry about the things on this world because they put their trust and faith in God to handle and take care of things of this world.
Mary, Thank you for the standard text offered for Sola Scriptura…. Many Protestants misread this. This is creative Eisigesis to justify Protestant tradition. NOT all-sufficient! And this is how Catholicism uses scripture….. The New was not written nor collated. No saint, not even Mary, is above Jesus. Firstly, The bible never disagrees within itself. There are 2 or 3 verses which say it is abominable to God if we entertain the dead and we should never try contacting them. Secondly, everything Jesus went through was so we could have direct access to God Himself.
By praying to saints or Mary you are directly disobeying Gods word and also disrespecting what Jesus did for us all. The pope is pure Idolatry. My heart is for all people to know God through Jesus. All the religious acts Catholicism reply on are only going to distance you from God. You do it by accepting His love for you and loving Him back by having a heart for His word. Please Catholic people just ask God. Mary and the saints have their reward in heaven. They do not need our praises.
God says do not make statues yet Catholicism is stacked with them. Check your 10 commandments the Catholic church altered them. I pray to our God and Father that His truth will penetrate your hearts minds and spirits. Amen x. The prayers of Saints in Revelation may be the prayers of Saints while living on earth and other saints who are currently living.
Everyone who loves God are Saints. You said Mark You should reread it properly for there is no such things on this verse. How can you add things that are not in the bible.. And not considered dead coz of their faith.. Kindly explain Revelation Bakit p kailangan buhayin ung mga patay if your teaching is that the dead are people with no faith.. At bakit ang ibang patay ay niligtas given that the dead have no faith.. You are even teaching sign of the cross na wala sa bible.. Revelation I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;.
My suggestion is that you review Exodus Chapter Mary should be venerated for she is the mother of Jesus Christ the Messiah Our Lord, however she clearly states in her song of Mary Luke that she is the Lords humble maidservant. I was born and raised Catholic on Long Island and an altar server for 5 years, but I departed the Catholic religion when the Lord opened my eyes to the errors of the Catholic Faith. I know there are God fearing persons inside the Catholic faith, I have many friends and relatives who are such persons.
My prayer is either the Catholic faith reform itself of its errors or that the Lord calls all who are God fearing out of the Catholic Faith. Paul, in Galatians stated if anyone, either a person or an angel comes preaching another Gospel other than the one he preached, let them be accursed! What was the Gospel Paul preached? It was that we are saved by Faith alone and by Grace alone, not of works that anyone should boast…Catholicism is a Gospel of works and imparted Grace achieved by and through those works and the Sacraments… that is a different Gospel, period!
The saints are with us and are able to see and hear us. Catholics are asking the Saints and Mary to pray for us and with us. Ephesians , James There is no prayer as powerful as one from Heaven. Christ wanted just one Religion Catholic because Christ founded one church and not 60 thousand or more denominations so read acknowledge and pray then understand! Physical on the Earth, spiritual in Heaven. Actually the Devil fears the intercession of the Just souls in our prayers. So for the Protestants it is okay for you not to ask any body hear on earth or heaven to pray for you, you can always pray for your self ,it is okay.
But remember Jesus Christ himself started the church, he even gave the Apostles power to forgive sin, it is the church which is the pillar of truth, where we go for medication ,otherwise you would need no body to baptise you, to lay hands upon you, Jesus gave the authority to the church, whatever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven, only the true Apsotolic Church can use this authority, a false Church can never.
I have no problem asking Abraham to pray for me, or Elijah to pray for me before the Almighty Father through Jesus Christ. Actually, the Devil fears the intercession of the Just souls in our prayers. So for the Protestants it is okay for you not to ask anybody here on earth or heaven to pray for you, you can always pray for yourself, it is okay.
I agree with you Mary. Mary the mother of Jesus Christ was a humble and blessed servant of the Lord. She was picked to carry our Savior and give birth in purity of her virginity. Only Christ, He and He alone is our Salvation. Imagine worship is against the commandments therefore, your worship goes to the satan whom has deceived you and you have allowed yourself to be deceived.
Hebrews Ch2; The Founder of Salvation 5 Now it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. Matthew Ch27; 50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Beware of those around you that seek to deceive you and distract you to worship other then Him and Him alone. Love your God with all your heart, let the reader understand and set prayer and guard upon your heart. Abba, Father, they are yours as I am. I myself, feel their is something VERY wrong with him. No one in heaven is any closer what God needs proximity to hear us.. Catholics are so horribly wrong in so many ways … read the bible.. God is the only one to confess our sins too … not a priest, not a man, not a human, not anyone else, but God!
Are you saying that these saints have the ability like God to hear millions of prayers at the same time? Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. I wanted to share a few verses from the Quran. We may agree to disagree on some things, but hopefully we all agree that Mary peace be upon her was a great woman. She guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her from Our spirit. See how clear We make these signs for them; yet see how deluded they are. Jews and Christians , do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was not more than a messenger of God and His word, directed to Mary, and a spirit from Him.
A wee bit of an escalation. I do give them specific petitions. You ask your friends and family on earth to pray for you- and your intention, say…for a relative with cancer…. Some may forget. Some may pray in disrespectful ways. Why would you not call upon the saints in heaven…. You trust a fellow sinner before you trust someone already purified and perfected, who IS with the Lord? It makes no sense. There is an entire resource of intercessors in heaven who love you and want to help you.
Use them. That has to be their greatest delight. Think about being in heaven and seeing the struggles of your loved ones on earth. Would you not go to the Lord in person to ask for their relief? THAT, my friend, is intercession of the saints. Btw I know all about the glorified state and the Catholic stance on this because I used to pray to them as well.
There is plenty of scripture and the life of Jesus to support this as well but I think the best way to figure things out is to search for absolute truth in the strength of the Lord. Rule of thumb would be test everything, test the spirits that guide you etc My job is to just talk about the truth that is revealed to me. God is LOVE. I sense your problem is an attachment to the 16th century slogan Sola Scriptura, which was just plucked from thin air. Try to prove this assumption please, before applying its reductionism.
I think your assumption, that causes this reductionism, may be unconcious. The Bible did not drop from the sky. Why do you do this? Why do you assume Sola Scriptura? Jesus Christ Is God.. Why Are You Prayin to Mary?
Why Pray to Mary and the Saints?
The Curtain was Torn in Two. Jesus took My Sin Upon Himself. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. No-one is undermining our Saviour Christ. They delight in that. Can you show me scripture where Jesus says we need to know his mom or have a relationship with her? But Mary….. John 2.
You need to understand all this to realise why Jesus feigns as if it is against His will but accedes. And you need to understand that Mary is the second Eve to Jesus second Adam …. You are reading scripture through Protestant-Tradition-Goggles.
This might be OK as long as you become concious of this fact. The issue of Catholics praying to saints is one that is full of confusion. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.
Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?
Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another 2 Corinthians ; Ephesians ; Philippians ; 2 Timothy The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations.
How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns Leviticus ; Deuteronomy It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever. God does not answer prayers based on who is praying.
God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will 1 John There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers.
Think again! There is no biblical support whatsoever for praying to Mary or saints. The only intercessor we need is the Holy Spirit. He is the only One who can intercede for us. You are taking a mere human and giving her God-like qualities and titles. She is just a person. A person chosen to do something amazing, but just a person. Also, she is no longer a virgin, seeing as James was the brother of Jesus. By an objective analysis….
But that is not the last word. How can you think that? She has relationships with the Trinity that are unique and yet it is what we as children of this New Eve are called to become. She is the first of the wholly-redeemed. Look at the detail. It does NOT say she preceded God in time. It is therefore a Christological heresy, which even the Protestant Reformers, recognized but which modern Protestants repeat when they deny Theotokos. To me, as a evangelical protestant Christian with some Messianic beliefs and views, Mary the mother of Jesus is just a mortal human jew who was the biological Earthly mom of the Nazarene Messiah.
I will not pray to her, just to the Almighty God and Jesus Christ. Is the connection somehow proven in one of the Scripture passages. Is it divine, holy and on the same legitimate wavelength as the 3 Holy Supernatural Triune Beings? Can Mary do any miracles, have any holy power or answer prayers?
Where is she sitting in the Heavenly realm? I mean it did take 2. As well, supporting individuals include Zechariah, Elizabeth and of course John the Baptist. Jesus is the Christ, and can do what the saints, Mary, and others that have passed on can Not do.
Intersection of Life and Faith
Or the high level of devotion placed on Mary and the saints over the level of devotion that is given to The Christ Jesus. I read one post that reads as if Jesus was a self absorbed spoiled child that never pays attention to the earthly peoples prayer, unless his mother or the saints nag him to look at the prayers they have collected. Jesus was and adult when he was crucified, and had already put away childish things like requiring his mother to tell him to do his homework, so to speak. The way his post read was as if he though Jesus intellect or placement with the Almighty Father God, was beneath his mother and the saints.
God is a jealous God. So that post was a cause for pause. Not saying he spoke for the masses. If you take the trouble to read my posts above you will get scripture galore for what Mary is….. So whoe is Mother-of The Body of Christ? Are you part of it? Then she is your Mum. She As New Eve brings the good-fruit of her womb back-to-the-tree-of life…. Maybe Jesus called her Woman because…wait for it…she was a woman? She is…. Is that how you would address her in your very last dying action?
Mary does not fall…. The fall is reversed! She becomes Mother of John…. Do you doubt this? Christians believe that God took human form as Jesus Christ and that God is present today through the work of the Holy Spirit and evident in the actions of believers. While the actual nature of this life is not known, Christians believe that many spiritual experiences in this life help to give them some idea of what eternal life will be like. These days, the word saint is most commonly used to refer to a Christian who has lived a particularly good and holy life on earth, and with whom miracles are claimed to have been associated after their death.
The formal title of Saint is conferred by the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches through a process called canonisation. Members of these Churches also believe that Saints created in this way can intercede with God on behalf of people who are alive today. This is not accepted by most Protestants. In the Bible , however, the word saint is used as a description of anyone who is a committed believer, particularly by St. Paul in the New Testament e.
Ephesians 1. The New Testament records that Jesus taught his disciples how to pray and that he encouraged them to address God as Father. Christians believe that they continue this tradition.
Whilst prayer is often directed to God as Father, as taught by Jesus, some traditions encourage prayer to God through intermediaries such as saints and martyrs. Prayers through Mary , as the mother of God, are central to some churches and form a traditional part of their worship. The Christian church is fundamental to believers. Although it has many faults it is recognised as God's body on earth.
The church is the place where the Christian faith is nurtured and where the Holy Spirit is manifest on earth. It is where Christians are received into the faith and where they are brought together into one body through the Eucharist. The Christian church believes in one baptism into the Christian church, whether this be as an infant or as an adult, as an outward sign of an inward commitment to the teachings of Jesus. I trust that every Christian regularly prays for family or friends or colleagues or neighbors who do not yet know the Lord.
And while we can and must pray for matters related to their lives and circumstances, the emphasis of our prayers must always be for their salvation. Here are some ways the Bible can guide our prayers. We begin with prayers for salvation. Each of these prayers seeks the same thing, but in a different way or from a different angle or using different language. Each of them is grounded in a specific text of Scripture. Pray that God would circumcise their hearts. To have a circumcised heart symbolizes having a heart that is fully joined to God, fully submissive to him.
Pray that God would give them a heart of flesh. The Bible contrasts a heart of flesh, a heart that is alive and responsive to God, to a heart of stone, a heart that is cold and unyielding. Pray that God would work within these unbelievers to change their hearts. Pray that God would put his Spirit within them. The great joy of salvation is being indwelled by God himself. Pray that God would grant this honor to those unbelievers, that he would choose to take up residence within them. Pray that they would come to Christ. If unbelievers are to come to salvation, there is just one way.
They must come through Christ and Christ alone. Remember, too, that he is the one who calls them to come and to be relieved of the burden of their sin see Matthew Pray that God would open their hearts to believe the gospel. Once more, God must initiate and people must respond. So pray that God would open the hearts of these unbelievers so they can in turn believe, just as Lydia did. Pray that God would free them from the slavery of sin. Unbelievers may believe they are free, but they are in fact enslaved.
They are slaves of sin, bound by their sin and sinfulness. Pray that God would liberate them by his gospel.
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